About takeonrules

I'm an avid face to face gamer (RPGs, Boardgames, and Card games), though I'm contemplating using hangouts for gaming. I work for the Univeristy of Notre Dame. Sometimes I blog about work more often I blog about games. I have three children, a step-daughter, and a loving & lovely wife.

Keeping the RSS Fires Burning

Demogorgon Dreams’s post OSR Blog Rennaissance sparked this blog post.

Beacon fire light on a mountaintop

Gondor Calling from the Return of the King

Google shutdown Reader on July 15, 2013. Even though I hopped over to feedly.com straight away, it took over a year to stop reflexively going to reader.google.com.

Google Reader was a publication consumer. Google+ looked to be both consume and produce publication, without exposing an open publication standard for others to consume. While Google+ thrashed to find its eventual grave, blogs continued chugging along, publishing content. They were the producers in the equation. Google+ provided enough ways to push content from producers into it’s closed ecosystem. Some of what we, the heavy users of Google+, see in the collapse is an absence of a Google provided consumer of blogs end point.

This past week, Google announced it will be shuttering Google+; a place in which the game community initially flocked to, and from which great game collaborations developed. As Google+ goes through it’s death throws, those remaining are looking for safe harbor.

Proprietary platforms have risks. They exist at the whim of their owner. This is doubly true if you aren’t paying for use of that platform—Hint: You’re attention and concentration is their payment.. For Google Reader, the platform leveraged an open standard (RSS and Atom feeds). Google+ did no such thing.

It is great to see that many game blogs survived the loss of Google Reader (a consumer of content) and the threat of Google+ (a somewhat self-contained consumer and producer of content). It appears to have reinvigorated blogging (a producer of content)—I am a bit nervous about so many great blogs over on Blogger. Were Google to shut down Blogger, we’d lose a tremendous amount of content. There is an export option, but that requires active involvement. Hopefully we’ll get a heads up and can plan a life raft if this apocalypse occurred..

As blogs resurge, they’ll continue exposing their RSS and Atom feeds for others to consume through a common and open publication standard. And the heirs to the shattered Google Reader kingdom will keep the RSS consumers fed (Feedly, The Old Reader, and Inoreader).

Personally, I’ve used Feedly for years. But the “Subscribe to an OPML file” feature of Inoreader is perhaps a killer feature; Allowing a centralized OPML file that groups of people could share—I recommend subscribing to Save vs. Total Party Kill’s OPML feed for lots of OSR blogs..

Inoreader provides a Save to Drive feature, allowing a quick snapshot of a blog post. Feedly defers to the IFTTT integration hub for such things.

As it stands, I’m testing Inoreader in parallel with Feedly. Thusfar, Inoreader’s edging out Feedly.

An Analogue

I see analogues to Google’s efforts in Wizards of the Coasts licencsing of D&D editions.

D&D 3E created an open system via the OGL. As Wizards of the Coast looked to pivot from 3E to 4E, they looked to tighten up the license. Paizo’s Pathfinder became a rallying cry for many D&D players, while numerous other systems popped up around the open game license. A healthy ecosystem of games developed because of an open standard.

And D&D 4E floundered in part because of its mangled license. It is hard to go from an open standard to a closed standard.

Wizards of the Coast recognized the thriving ecosystem built from their previous open standard. They chose to release D&D 5E under the OGL. And gaming has never been better.

A Late Aside

I’ve also been reassessing my dependence on WordPress. I pay a bit of money each year for them to manage the hassle. This is their business model, so I know they have an interest in improving my experience. Yet, I want more freedom.

My thought is that I want to have strong ownership in what I write as well as how that is distributed.

I’ve exported my content out of WordPress into a static site (see takeonrules.github.io) generated by Jekyll and hosted on Github). I now have extreme portability in all of my content, control of its presentation, and multi-site backups (thanks to Git).

Go visit Technical Grimoire for a tutorial on Jekyll and the related technologies.

I have yet to flip the switch as I’m weighing the value of comments. I’d need to use something like Disqus to provide comments for my static site. I’m not very thrilled about that. I’d prefer someone write up a response and contact me with a link to their response.

For now, I first write to takeonrules.github.io, then massage the output HTML into something for my WordPress site.

That One Session of Dwimmermount

A little more than a year ago, my step-daughter gathered up a group of players and asked if I’d run some D&D. I said sure. She said that there might be 10 players. <gulp>

Five fantasy adventurers standing on floating stairs.

“Dwimmermount” by James Maliszweski; Cover by Mark Allen.

I certainly wasn’t going to use D&D 5E. For any RPG, 10 players is a lot. But back in the day, tables were often 10+ players. I narrowed my system of choice to those that had rules for a caller.

“The caller is a player who announces to the Dungeon Master what the group of characters (the Party) is doing. The Caller must check with every player to find out what all the characters are doing, and then tell the DM (quickly and accurately) what they plan to do. The Caller does not tell the others what to do; the Caller merely reports what is going on.” page 53 of Dungeons & Dragons Players Manual (Revised by Frank Mentzer)

I didn’t know who had previous RPG experience, and felt that Race as Class—The traditional classes are Fighter, Thief, Cleric, Magic-User, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling. Though Thief is a later add. would provide the best guide rails. I went with Labyrinth LordThey were all 10th and 11th graders many of whom I didn’t know their parents, so I passed on “Lamentations of the Flame Princess”.

First, Labyrinth Lord is free. I did not want a barrier to entry for those that may not have resources. Second, it is a faithful interpretation of the Basic/Expert rules of D&D—A game that has proven to have legs primarily from its narrow scope and compact rules system, making it a hacker’s dream..

Day of the Game

It turned out 7 players showed up. Still 1 too many for my 5E comfort level. I went ahead with the plan, introducing the basic rules. Two of the players had previous 5E experience and were a bit suspect about rolling 3d6 straight down and picking a class that included races. When I got to the “you die at 0 HP” they again paused, considering mutiny. I explained that they could just quick make another character and we’ll move on—I used some humor and ensured that they understood things weren’t all that serious

If memory serves we had a dwarf (named Dunder Mifflin), 3 fighters, 1 wizard, a halfling, and a cleric (and about 4 hirelings). I introduced them to Muntberg, at the foot of Dwimmermount. They bought equipment—I prodded the wizard to secure hirelings, as they are the most useful of wizard equipment. In hindsight, I should’ve mentioned more about burning oil

I explained the basic rules of Labyrinth Lord advancement—You get 1 XP per 1 GP of treasure, and monsters give you minimal XP. I talked about the dungeon turn, what you can do, and the frequency of random monsters—Every 2 turns there is a 1 in 6 chance of a random encounter; avoid them. I then explained that the answers were not on their character sheet; They should instead ask me questions as they explore the dungeon.

I gave them each a random rumor which may prove useful, and off they went.

Into Dwimmermount

Up the mountain they climbed. Into the entrance. They poked around a bit and opened the first door —I was narrating the mapping to them, but in hindsight, I believe I’ll go ahead and draw out the map as they explore it.; Behind which was 6 orcs and a leader. The battle was fast and furious —reaction checks and morale checks and the casualties quick to pile up. Dunder Mifflin died—An event that left the player a bit shocked. But he chuckled a bit. I told him to roll up a new character, and he started laughing along with the hirelings. As expected, the wizard’s sleep spell secured a victory. Hungry for loot, they stripped everything and decided to head back to town.

Back at town, the characters a bit wealthier and a bit wiser, recruited more hirelings. And Sunder Mifflin, son of Dunder, joined the ranks. Along with Whiskey Sue, Four Eyed Tom, Hairy Harold, and some other hirelings with less memorable names. At this point, I noticed a shift.

The players stealed their resolve and grew interested in defeating the challenges ahead of them. They knew I wasn’t pulling any punches, and redoubled their effort.

After some recovery, they returned, refreshed, and reinforced. Taking a different path, they checked doors, and when they discovered some monsters they prodded their hirelings to take the vanguard—I check the morale and everyone was onboard

This encounter went better for the PCs, they had minor resource losses (at least no PCs died). They pressed deeper into the dungeon and came upon a statue and puzzle. They wanted more information and asked questions. They decided after they left the dungeon they’d go to Adamus to track down a sage —Had we had more sessions, the flow of information to and from the sage might have driven further exploration. Especially as campaign cast members began offering rewards for more information from Dwimmermount

Still fresh, they backtracked to the room in which the first Dunder Mifflin died. The door was locked. Listening, they heard movement behind the door—I rolled on the Dungeon Restock table on page 79 of Dwimmermount – Labyrinth Lord version. With the session drawing to a close, I forced their hand and had them return to Muntberg—By forcing them back to Muntburg, I was invoking a bit of the West Marches Procedure. I did check for random encounters as they made their egress. After all, running out the session clock should not be a teleport to a safe-zone.


We did character creation, rules explanation, two forays into the dungeon (involving 4 combats, exploring 7 rooms), character replacement, and at the table chatter—All in 4 hours. We got a lot done, and the players began drawing connections from inside and outside of the dungeon.

We never did return to this session, but I learned a lot following the “rules as written” procedures of Labyrinth Lord. Namely that this style of play is a group problem solving game. Yes your character is important, but not more so than the campaign and the overall group experience.

From this, I also saw the promises of what a megadungeon focus can bring to a campaign. Part of Dwimmermount’s allure is that it is a focal point of the entire campaign. Buried within this dungeon is an archaeological and historical trove of information that exposes the campaign backstory. With monetary (and thus XP) incentives for producing maps and gathering information, the flow of story into and out of Dwimmermount became evident.

Discovered an Unknown to Me Sibling of the Old School Primer

I’ve been following the great posts from the “OSR Guide for the Perplexed” call. Sidenote: Take some time to go Google “OSR Guide for the Perplexed”. Kuroth’s Quill post pointed me to “Megadungeon Tactics: Mission-Based Adventuring” by Matt Finch. An article unknown to me and published in Knockspell #4. According to Kuroth’s Quill:

This is an excellent resource for old-school dungeon-exploring players in general, and helps players to effectively deploy in play the concepts outlined in Matt’s Old School Primer (free).

That piqued my interest. Scratching together some RPGNow credits, I downloaded Knockspell #4 and read the article (from 2009).

First, this article is addressing the rise of the Megadungeon, something of which I’ve never played in. Nor given all that much thought to how I would explore them as a player.

Sidenote: There is Grognardia’s 2008 post My Megadungeon: dwimmermount. Please take the time to read this whole site. Michael Curtis’s 2009 Stonehell Dungeon looked to address the organizational layout and modularity of megadungeons. Also consider Rappan Athuk, Banewarrens, the Worlds Largest Dungeon, etc. Regardless, something about 2009 begged everyone to explore massive dungeons.

I found the advice reshaping my understanding of an aspect of role-playing that I’ve often set aside; The strategic consideration of adventuring, especially when you have fragile characters.

Matt Finch provides practical advice at the intersection of mechanics and dungeon topography.

First and foremost, understand the rewards struture of the game. In older editions and the OSR, character get XP for gaining treasure, defeating monsters, and completing quests. In an adventure, if you tally XP sources, the majority of possible XP comes from treasure. Sidenote: Consider that a 100 XP monster might be a barrier to 1000 XP of treasure. Where possible, mitigate the chance of that 100 XP monster ever attacking you. Bribe it, ambush it, lure it away, etc. After all, your fragile 4 HP wizard can die in one hit from a monster that deals 1d8 damage.

With this understanding, optimize for treasure and do your best to ensure an upper hand in any conflicts. Inversely, avoid efforts that are unlikely to produce treasure or that can introduce further conflict complications. This is codified in the various approaches into the dungeon.

Second, understand that dungeons often have procedures for random encounter checks. In otherwords, monsters that won’t have much treasure. Which runs against your rules of optimization. Reduce your chances of random encounters by being efficient and judicious.

First Expedition

This is where you aim to map the corridors. Sidenote: GMs require the players to declare which character is doing the mapping and has the map.

The corridors are your flight path when you cut and run.

Understand the flow of the dungeon. How you can use it. And how others can use it against you. In this first expedition, there is an assumption that you won’t gain any treasure but will reduce your chances of random encounters.

Matt encourages a devious strategy, analogue to “doubling a volunteer’s pay”. Hire elves and dwarves promising a share of the treasure. PCs, be generous, after all the plan is not to find treasure. Yes this is disingenuous, but what is a poor dungeon raider to do? Sidenote: They have secret door detection and stonework cunning to sniff out anomalies in the corridors

Elves and Dwarves are one form of preparation; Another analogue is spell selection. In this first foray, its all about reconnaissance spells. Sidenote: Character creation is quick, so take a calculated risk with this disposable PC; Instead of preparing sleep consider detect magic or even read languages.

Another point Matt raises is around topography:

Keep in mind especially that corridors which circle back to other corridors are very dangerous in running battles, because they allow enemies to hit you from more than one direction at the same time.

Understand the physical flow of the dungeon. From this understanding you can later optimize your approach and even use the dungeon topography to your advantage (or at least minimize its disadvantages).

Prepare for the Second Expedition

With a map in hand, the players/characters should discuss and plan their next expedition. Where do they think they can smash and grab some treasure? What might there approach be? While this is a more dangerous expedition, the goal is to optimize treasure acquisition. Sidenote: This in turn leads to leveling-up and increased durability of characters.

From here, Matt Finch provides a trove of information and approaches, as outlined in the conceptual table of contents for this article:

The First Two Missions

  • Expedition #1: Map the Corridors
  • Expedition #2: Recover Lost Cash Flow

Expeditions After the First Two

  • Type #1: Rinse and Repeat
  • Type #2: Checking for Details
  • Type #3: Deep Excursion
  • Type #4: Rescue and Recovery
  • Type #5: Gadgeteering, Gizmology, Amateur Siegecraft, and Buildstuffological Engineering


The advice from Matt Finch’s “Megadungeon Tactics: Mission-Based Adventuring” from Knockspell #4 can be summed up as know the risk/reward elements of the game and take an iterative and agile approach in dungeon delving with an initial focus of understanding the flow of a dungeon.

My Response to an OSR Guide For The Perplexed Questionnaire

Filling out an OSR Guide For The Perplexed Questionnaire, my answers are inline.

One article or blog entry that exemplifies the best of the Old School Renaissance for me:

A bit of a cheat, but the index of Secret Santicore PDFs demonstrates a community dedicated to crafting all kinds of interesting ideas.


My favorite piece of OSR wisdom/advice/snark:

The Hardest Core RPG Theory Post

Best OSR module/supplement:

I love Dungeon Crawl Classics #66.5: Doom of the Savage King, a small sandbox with numerous approaches.

My favorite house rule (by someone else):

Carousing by Jeff Rients

How I found out about the OSR:

It would’ve been around 2011. I was following blogs about gaming, especially learning about Dungeon World. It was a take on old school gaming. And in September 2011, I bought the 1st edition of Death Frost Doom and the Grindhouse Edition of Lamentations of the Flame Princess.

I started reading James Raggi IV’s Grindhouse Referee Book and thinking “This is so very good.”

My favorite OSR online resource/toy:

BarrowMaze’s Meatshields

Best place to talk to other OSR gamers:

Google+ and through other blog postings (get the OSR OPML from Save vs. Total Party Kill).

Other places I might be found hanging out talking games:

I’m dipping my toe in MeWe. I’m over on Reddit (/r/osr as /u/takeonrules)

My awesome, pithy OSR take nobody appreciates enough:

Don’t give me a backstory, make it happen at the table.

My favorite non-OSR RPG:

Burning Wheel

Why I like OSR stuff:

OSR games use a familiar and common rules framework, focusing instead of content and ideas. Instead of introducing yet another boutique set of rules, energy is spent creating and mixing ideas.

Furthermore, much of it is released under the OGL, meaning the rules remain free for future use.

Two other cool OSR things you should know about that I haven’t named yet:

If I could read but one other RPG blog but my own it would be:

Ramanan Sivaranjan’s Save vs. Total Party Kill

A game thing I made that I like quite a lot is:

My Random Bond generator for Dungeon World; Useful for connecting two NPCs together.

I’m currently running/playing:

I’m running a 5E game using the Tomb of Annihilation adventure. As I continue to increment the Death Save DC, I relish the dread of the players.

I don’t care whether you use ascending or descending AC because:

I used THAC0 and BAB, both work fine. Besides, shouldn’t you be running from monsters anyway?

The OSRest picture I could post on short notice:


Burning Wheel Lifepaths Inspired by Warhammer Fantasy

Recently, I’ve been reading through the First Edition of Warhammer Fantasy RPG. The character creation is rather spectacular. Encoded in the career descriptions is a vibrant setting, and a clear antecedent to Burning Wheel.

Table 1: Villager Setting Lifepaths
Lifepath Time Resources Stat Leads
Toll-Keeper 6 yrs 15 City, Peasant
Skills: 5 pts: Bandit-wise, Haggling, Appraisal, Persuasion, Accounting
Traits: 2 pts: Humorless
Restrictions: May not be the character’s second lifepath
Targeteer 4 yrs 8 +1 P City, Noble Court, Outcast
Skills: 5 pts: Bow, Fletcher, Contest-wise, Wager-wise, Travel-wise
Traits: 1 pts: (Stead Hand)
Table 2: City Dweller Setting Lifepaths
Lifepath Time Resources Stat Leads
Bawd 5 yrs 11 Noble Court, Outcast, Seafaring
Skills: 4 pts: Good Times-wise, Streetwise, Haggling, Brawling
Traits: 1 pts:
Restrictions: May not be the character’s second lifepath
Pit-Fighter 3 yrs 7 +1 P Outcast, Servitude, Soldier
Skills: 5 pts: Brawling, Dirty Fighting-wise, Acting, Appropriate Weapon, Crowd-wise
Traits: 2 pts: Scarred, Cold-blooded, Fearless, Resigned to Death
Roadwarden 4 yrs 8 +1 P Outcast, Soldier, Village
Skills: 5 pts: Riding, Road-wise, Countryside-wise, Ambush-wise Sword
Traits: 2 pts: Saddle Sore, Cautious
Note: Groom, Roadwarden, or any soldier lifepath
Raconteur 5 yrs 9 Outcast, Peasant, Soldier, Village
Skills: 5 pts: Oratory, Blathering-wise, Conspicuous, Persuasion, Seduction, Etiquette, Story-wise
Traits: 1 pts: Witty, The Story
Coachman 4 yrs 11 +1 M/P Outcast, Soldier, Village
Skills: 4 pts: Riding, Traveler-wise, Firearms, Observation
Traits: 1 pts: Jaded, Cool Headed
Requires: Groom, Roadwarden, or any soldier lifepath
Table 3: Noble Court Setting Lifepaths
Lifepath Time Resources Stat Leads
Explorer 6 yrs 15 +1 M/P Any
Skills: 7 pts: Cartography, Navigation, Oratory, Riding, Foreign Language, Read, Write
Traits: 2 pts: Cocky, Callous
Requires: Sailor, Scout, Student, Forester, Huntsman, Strider, or Your Lordship trait
Munitioner 5 yrs 25 +1 M City, Outcast, Seafaring, Soldier
Skills: 6 pts: Engineer, Munitions, Mending, Metalsmith, Explosion-wise
Traits: 2 pts: A Bit Deaf, Prominent Scar, A Bit Crazy
Requires: Sailor, Scout, Student, Forester, Huntsman, Strider, or Your Lordship trait
Note: Counts as an Engineer for lifepath requirements.
Court Druid 8 yrs 32 +1 M City, Outcast
Skills: 7 pts: Etiquette, Astrology, Spirit Binding, Ancient History, Symbology, Sing, Curse-wise
Traits: 1 pts: Mysterious
Requires: Any previous lifepath that contains the Sorcery skill
Table 4: Outcast Setting Lifepaths
Lifepath Time Resources Stat Leads
Witch-Hunter 6 yrs 15 +1 M/P City, Religious, Soldier, Villager
Skills: 6 pts: Oratory, Stealth, Crossbow, Interrogation, Throwing, Agent of Chaos-wise
Traits: 3 pts: Suspicious, Zealot, Loner, Rigid Moral Compass, Sixth Sense
Requires: A Soldier or Religious lifepath

Rethinking the Failed Climb Check

I’ve been listening to numerous actual play podcasts, and stumbled upon Sunday Skyper‘s Burning Beards campaign. A group clearly enjoying their game.

On my ride home from work, I was listening to Episode 8. At one point in which Ulfkell Son of Muggur, Flint Gotterdamn, and Fandral the Stalwart, son of Vandral Iron Girdle found themselves stuck in a watery pit.

I paused and thought about how I would establish consequences for this all too common obstacle. The intent, as I recall, was to climb out of the pit and get the lanterns so they could better see their surroundings. The situation was Fandral was climbing with a boost and guidance from Flint.

A classic consequence is to have them fall midway through their climb. But with the Let it Ride rule, this mandates that they can’t climb their way out. Not cool and doesn’t move much forward.

Options I was thinking of were:

  • You climb up but find the lanterns are gone or busted (or now coveted by a creature)
  • You climb up but sustain an injury
  • You climb up but damage/ruin some equipment

Also important when considering consequences is to bind helpers to the outcome of the test.

In this case, what I would’ve chosen was to for rocks to fall onto Flint and damage his axe (he has an instinct related to his axe) and Fandral sustain an injury but make it to the top.

Really, this is following the advice of Dungeon World with some hard moves:

  • Use a monster, danger, or location move
  • Reveal an unwelcome truth
  • Show signs of an approaching threat
  • Deal damage
  • Use up their resources
  • Turn their move back on them
  • Separate them
  • Give an opportunity that fits a class’ abilities
  • Show a downside to their class, race, or equipment
  • Offer an opportunity, with or without cost
  • Put someone in a spot
  • Tell them the requirements or consequences and ask


The Stage is Set for an Epic Battle in Omu

Setting the Stage for a Grand Combat

Building from the previous session:

  • The warlock, as an eagle, carried a silenced rope kept close to the King of Feathers.
  • An aging (now hasted) Tabaxi, bent on a glorious death, lead the King of Feathers on.
  • A Tabaxi rogue/ranger nimble and fast, provided flanking support.
  • The sorcerer, barbarian, and cleric, followed several steps behind.

Random Tables

When you first lead the King of Feathers into the camp, roll…
d6 Result
1 1 round of inaction
2 2 rounds of inaction
3 3 rounds of inaction
4-6 Respond Quickly

I wanted to reflect that moment of confusion, when a large and silenced T-Rex charges into an encampment.

I told the players that each round there was a 50/50 chance that the rumblings of a nearby huge monster would wake any sleeping inhabitants.

The overall state of the camp
d20 Results
1 A wizard was out relieving themselves (and alert)
2 The wizards were in a meeting (in the same building)
3 A wizard is overseeing a dream spell
4 The guards on watch are instead gambling
5 The wizards are deep in a summoning ritual (and it won’t be long until it’s done)
6 The wizards just dealt with an incursion, roll 2d6 each, they each spent those spell slots; 1d6 veterans are bloodied.
7-20 The wizards were sleeping amongst their bone harem of their skeletons (they each get +2 cover bonus)

A camp of 20 or so humans has nighttime activity. I wanted to convey that reality, and not lay the conditions out ahead of time.

Players Roll

Since there were two groups of characters (those fast enough to lead the King of Feathers on, and those not) I had them roll to see how far the trailing group was behind the King of Feathers.

They rolled 1 round of inaction, that the guards were gambling, the faster barbarian would arrive at round 2, and the sorcerer and cleric would arrive at round 4. (They didn’t know but the veterans would awake at round 3).

I set up the location, and called for a group initiative. For initiative order for the combat  was: the players, King of Feathers, and the camp. (I had briefly thought of rolling group initiative each turn)

A combat map for a tabletop RPG, with dominos for buildings, dice for monsters, and other oddities

The Stage is Set for an Epic Battle in Omu

The Participants

  • Five 7th level PCs – a tabaxi ranger 4 /rogue 3; a half-elf cleric 1 / sorcerer 6; a human cleric 7 / a half-elf warlock 7; a dwarf barbarian 7
  • One Tabaxi Hunter, an ally of the PCs bent on a glorious death
  • Two 9th level Mages (CR 6)
  • One 11th level Mage (CR 7)
  • One flesh golem (CR 5)
  • Twelve veterans (CR 3)
  • Twelve skeletons (CR 1/2)
  • One King of Feathers (an augmented CR 9 T-Rex)

Everyone knew this was a dangerous gambit. Going into the session we all knew this would be an encounter that would require constant evaluation.

As I was preparing the situation, I kept thinking what are the likely responses of the players?

  • They’ll lead the King of Feathers into the camp and stand back to assess (and perhaps strike after any spells had worn out)
  • They’ll join with the King of Feathers and battle the camp
  • They’ll swoop in to help the camp, and ingratiate themselves with the wizards

When You Lead a T-Rex Into Battle…

The grand melee that ensued was among the most satisfying I’ve ever ran; Definitely the most satisfying I’ve run for 5e. But this post draws long, so I’ll save the report until next time.